Journalism isn’t what it was once, and that’s not essentially a nasty factor. Particularly should you’re Mehdi Hasan.
However irrespective of the place he’s been on digital camera or printed, the British-born son of Indian immigrants requested the sort of robust questions that gained him a status as a fierce debater and unflinching proponent of high-impact, usually adversarial journalism.
“When we talk about media organizations, it’s often asked, ‘Are they left or are they right?’” Hasan says. “But I don’t think that dynamic is helpful. For me, it’s more like do they keep their heads down or do they keep their heads up?”
Hasan’s unwillingness to melt the sides round hot-button matters could possibly be the rationale he’s labored for extra shops than most public-facing of us within the media. His departure from MSNBC in January 2024, for instance, got here after his exhibits have been canceled by the community for “business reasons.” They provided to maintain him on as a contributor, however he declined.
This dialog has been edited for size and readability.
“When we talk about media organizations, it’s often asked, ‘Are they left or are they right?’” Mehdi Hasan says. “But I don’t think that dynamic is helpful.”
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What did it take to get Zeteo up and operating?
Me and the 4 individuals who set it up. And it was Ramadan. And I used to be fasting. I’ll say I by no means wish to do a startup firm once more with 4 folks throughout Ramadan [laughs]. We’re nonetheless a small, nimble operation, however it’s not insane as 4 folks attempting to do all the things. Now we have a political correspondent, Prem Thakker, who broke the campus deportation story. We introduced on Jamaal Bowman and Cori Bush, members of Congress, to do a YouTube present for us known as “Bowman and Bush.” [Former Washington Post columnist] Taylor Lorenz has simply turn out to be a contributor for us. Now we have Daniel Levy, the previous Israeli peace negotiator. And we’re going to be saying extra within the coming days as we method the anniversary. So we’re rising on that entrance.
The title Zeteo comes from the traditional Greek phrase for “seeking out” or “striving.” Why not simply name your startup the Mehdi Hasan Community?
It was by no means going to be the Mehdi Hasan community. Clearly, I’m the face of it. I’m the founder. I do the flagship exhibits. But it surely was at all times about being greater than me. That’s the aim. If I obtain nothing else, I’ve supplied a platform for actually attention-grabbing folks to say the unsayable, whether or not it’s [Egyptian political satirist] Bassem Youssef on the podcast; John Harwood [formerly of CNN], who writes superb political items for us; Pakistani novelist Fatima Bhutto; Amy Klein; Owen Jones; or Greta Thunberg. They’re saying issues as contributors you received’t see elsewhere.
You moved to the U.S. in 2015, the place you hosted a weekly present on Al Jazeera English. However simply 5 years later, you landed your individual present, “The Mehdi Hasan Show,” on Peacock. And shortly after that, you have been slotted into MSNBC’s lineup. That’s a fast trajectory.
After I moved right here, folks mentioned to me, “Oh, you’re going to end up at CNN, MSNBC because you do great interviews.” I used to be like, “No one’s ever going to hire me. I’m a brown, Muslim, lefty immigrant. I’m happy at Al Jazeera.” Mainstream was by no means going to be for me, but Phil Griffin and MSNBC took an opportunity on me in 2020 and employed me to do a present. I didn’t assume I’d last more than six months, however I lasted for 3½ years.
You don’t must outline activism as altering issues and journalism as not altering issues. The largest adjustments in our society have come from journalism. Investigative journalism, at its easiest, adjustments issues. It holds folks accountable. It forces folks to alter constructions, reform establishments. So I believe the most effective journalism is impression journalism that drives change. In any other case, what’s the level? Horse-race journalism — who’s up, who’s down, who’s doing nicely within the polls — that’s by no means been my curiosity. I do it often as a result of it has its position, however that’s by no means been what drives me. I don’t assume it must be what drives our trade, both. I wish to make a change. That’s why I do what I do. In any other case, I’d be an accountant.
The place does Zeteo stand within the crowded discipline of latest media startups?
One factor I used to be very clear about after I launched Zeteo was that I used to be going to be strolling that tightrope between being anti-establishment and institution, between mainstream and non-mainstream. Lots of people didn’t like that. What occurs to numerous left-wing media shops is that they get marginalized or marginalize themselves. They’re seen as fringe. However there’s no level in doing glorious journalism, glorious op-eds or commissioning good documentaries if nobody sees them.
Mehdi Hasan says he “was going to be walking that tightrope between being anti-establishment and establishment” with Zeteo.
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Did you propose on changing into a journalist?
I went to Oxford College. I did PPE [Politics, Philosophy and Economics]. Most of my graduating class went off to be administration consultants and funding bankers. I went off to get a 13,000-pound-a-year job, to the good disappointment of my Asian mother and father. However working in TV appeared vital.
As youngsters of immigrants, our mother and father got here from locations the place the media was hobbled or the place there is no such thing as a free press. Now you’re within the U.S., and the media is dealing with unprecedented challenges from the Trump administration.
Now, having mentioned that, we’ve obtained to place it in context. I’m nonetheless within the U.S., nonetheless protected by the first Modification. I’m not in Gaza, the place over 200 journalists have been killed. It’s the worst battle for journalists in historical past. The Civil Struggle, WWI, WWII — none of it comes shut. Sure, it’s a dangerous time for journalists in America, however in context, we’re nonetheless 10,000 occasions in a greater place than journalists in Gaza, for instance.
This month marks one yr since Zeteo’s official launch. How are issues going?
I’m a really cautious individual. I’ve by no means run a enterprise earlier than. I don’t have that entrepreneurial streak of risk-taking. After I launched this, I used to be tremendous cautious about what we may obtain. However, amazingly, the help I obtained after I left MSNBC and introduced Zeteo blew me away. We blasted by way of all of our early benchmarks, metrics and targets, and by the point we hit the summer time, we have been nicely forward of ourselves. So we’re in an excellent place.
Are you able to title a number of the benchmarks?
A yr in, most startups don’t break even. However this yr we’ve made a small revenue, which we weren’t planning on. We’re at 400,000 subscribers, which isn’t the place I assumed we’d be. We’re No. 6 on Substack, behind Bari Weiss, Heather Cox [Richardson] and the Bulwark of us. Now we have 715,000 followers on YouTube proper now and we’re rising by greater than 1,000 a day. We’ve obtained greater than 40,000 paying subscribers, which helps pay the payments. And we’ve obtained over 1,000 founding members who pay $500 a yr to help us.
“A year in, most startups don’t break even. But this year we’ve made a small profit, which we weren’t planning on,” Mehdi Hasan says.
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Is company media adequately protecting the America we dwell in at present?
My place shouldn’t be that the company media’s lifeless or that every one mainstream media is dangerous. That will be ridiculous. I’ve labored in these organizations. There are nice journalists doing nice work there. My place is that mainstream media will get lots incorrect, and there are numerous gaps that should be crammed, and that’s what Zeteo is doing. That doesn’t imply I wish to burn all of it down. We wouldn’t be capable to exist as a small media enterprise if we weren’t capable of depend on nice investigative scoops from sure folks on the Submit or Politico or the New York Instances. That doesn’t imply I like all the things that these shops do.
They know “mistruth” is only a softer phrase for “lie.”
My place could be very easy: For those who say one thing false greater than as soon as after you’ve been corrected, it’s a lie. That’s Trump 100 occasions over.
You’re recognized for being unapologetically outspoken, and pinning your debate opponents on divisive points. You even channeled your superpower right into a e book, “Win Every Argument.”
There’s at all times been that shadowing round me wherever I’ve been. It’s made folks uncomfortable in numerous locations. I’m not going to call an outlet, however I’ll say this, there have been occasions the place an interview I’ve carried out has gone viral and individuals are like, “Oh, my God, mic drop! The person’s been destroyed,” to make use of YouTube language. That’s what folks know me for. Then I’ll point out that to a good friend or member of the family, and they’re going to say, however do your bosses even need that? And it’s like, “Oh, I didn’t think of that. Good question.”
Which brings us again to MSNBC…
