While you collect the inventive minds behind six of essentially the most entertaining and acclaimed reveals of 2025, the dialog is destined for narrative intrigue. The writers who took half on this yr’s Envelope Roundtable touched on social media blackouts, launch methods, runaway manufacturing, even the marvel of Bravo’s “The Valley.” How’s that for a twist?
This panelists are Debora Cahn of “The Diplomat,” about an American overseas service officer thrust right into a thorny net of geopolitics; R. Scott Gemmill of “The Pitt,” which focuses on front-line healthcare staff inside a Pittsburgh hospital throughout a single 15-hour shift; Lauren LeFranc of “The Penguin,” a reimagining of the Batman villain Oswald Cobblepot as a rising Gotham Metropolis kingpin, Oz Cobb; Craig Mazin of “The Last Of Us,” an adaptation of the favored online game sequence about survivors of an apocalyptic pandemic; Seth Rogen of “The Studio,” a chronicle of the movie trade’s mercenary challenges as seen by way of the eyes of a newly appointed studio chief; and Jen Statsky of “Hacks,” about an growing old comedian’s sophisticated relationship together with her outspoken mentee.
Learn on for excerpts from our dialogue.
The 2025 Writers Roundtable: Lauren LeFranc, left, Jen Statsky, Craig Mazin, Seth Rogen, Debora Cahn and R. Scott Gemmill.
Lauren, you’re making a sequence that’s tethered to supply materials that’s actually beloved by followers. I’m curious what the conversations are like with DC, or “The Batman” director Matt Reeves, when your sequence has to suit into a bigger canon.
LeFranc: I knew the place Oz led to “The Batman.” I knew my job was to arc him to rise to energy and obtain a sure stage of energy by the top. Outdoors of that, I used to be given carte blanche and I may simply play. And that’s essentially the most thrilling factor to me. We each had been in settlement that this ought to be a personality research of this man. I like digging into the psychology of characters.
So many individuals had been like, “Do you feel pressure? What’s this like for you?” And I used to be like, “Am I numb as a human?” I don’t really feel that sort of strain. I really feel strain to inform a terrific story and to write down fascinating, participating characters which might be shocking and to sort of shock myself. I’m not the primary kind of particular person you’ll assume who would get a chance to write down a man like Oz, essentially, and to write down into this kind of world. I feel there’s been lots of crime dramas and lots of style reveals or options that don’t have the lens that I’ve on a person like that. So I took that significantly. And I additionally actually needed to pepper the world with actually fascinating, sophisticated ladies as properly. I felt like, in a few of these genres, generally these characters weren’t as totally fashioned.
Craig Mazin of “The Last of Us.”
(Jason Armond / Los Angeles Instances)
Craig, you recognize what it’s like working with supply materials, and we knew the destiny of fan-favorite character Joel, who dies in Half 2 of the online game. Inform me about your expertise of the demise of Joel within the online game — enjoying it — and the way that knowledgeable what you needed to see out of Season 2 and the place precisely it might fall.
Mazin: I used to be upset when it occurred, however I wasn’t upset on the sport. It was, narratively, the correct factor to do. In the event you make a narrative that’s about ethical outcomes and the results of our conduct, and someone goes by way of a hospital and murders an entire lot of individuals, and sort of dooms the world to be caught on this horrible place, and takes away the one hope they’ve of getting out of it, yeah, there ought to be a consequence. If there’s no consequence or perhaps a gentle consequence, then it’s a bit neutered, isn’t it? It made sense to me and it made sense that if we had been going to inform the story, that was the story we had been going to inform. Generally folks do ask me, “Was there any part of you that was like, ‘Hey, let’s not have Joel die?’” No. That might be the craziest factor of all time.
How fast had been you watching the real-time response from followers?
Mazin: I don’t do this.
Rogen: However how do you get validation? How are you aware to really feel good?
Statsky: Are you able to educate me to not look?
Mazin: I feel I’m searching for validation. Actually what I’m searching for is to repeat abusive conduct towards me — that’s what my therapist says. For all of our reveals, hundreds of thousands and hundreds of thousands and hundreds of thousands of persons are watching these world wide. And if 10,000 folks on Twitter come at you for one thing, that could be a negligible quantity relative to the dimensions of the viewers, however it certain doesn’t really feel [like it]. So I made a selection. The draw back is I do miss the applause. Who amongst us doesn’t love applause? I’ve simply needed to give that feeling as much as not really feel the dangerous emotions.
Seth Rogen of “The Studio.”
(Jason Armond / Los Angeles Instances)
With a present like “The Studio” or “Hacks,” does it really feel cathartic to lampoon the trade or present the ridiculous nature of the enterprise and the decision-makers generally?
Rogen: What’s humorous is, as we had been writing the present, we by no means used the phrase “satire.” To us, the aim was to not make enjoyable of any aspect of the trade — actually, it’s principally primarily based on myself and my very own fears, as somebody who’s in control of issues, that I’m making the flawed selections, and that I’m prioritizing the flawed issues, and that I’m convincing my idols to work with me after which I’m letting them down, and I’m championing the flawed concepts. That I’m making issues worse and that I’m giving notes to folks which might be detrimental fairly than thrilling, and that I’m mitigating my very own dangers fairly than attempting to bolster inventive swings. That was the startling second the place I spotted I personally relate in my darkest moments to a studio government greater than I do a inventive particular person within the trade in some ways. And that was sort of the second the place I used to be like, “Oh, that’s a funny thing to explore.”
Jen Statsky of “Hacks.”
(Jason Armond / Los Angeles Instances)
Statsky: However it’s fascinating while you put it like that, due to the a part of showrunning the place you develop into administration and also you’re far more on that enterprise facet [of] operating a present. We’re executives in some ways too.
Mazin: I’ve a query for you. How do you cope with the truth that — as we sort of transfer by way of issues as writers, we’re at all times comrades, we’re colleagues of individuals. While you develop into a showrunner, you don’t discover it at first, however there’s this barrier between you and all people, and in the future you get up and notice, “Oh, it’s because they look at me and see someone who can fire them, who can elevate them, who can change their lives for better or worse.” And also you begin to really feel very, very lonely unexpectedly.
Statsky: Oh, there’s a gaggle textual content you’re not on.
Mazin: And it’s about you.
Statsky: It’s about you. It’s such a tough a part of this job that I battle with very a lot as a result of as writers, we’re empathetic to others, and we’re observing the world, and we are attempting to commune with folks as finest as doable. However then you definately do that factor and also you’re like, “I like writing, I like writing, I like writing.” They usually’re like, “Great. Now here’s a 350-person company to manage and you become a boss.” I battle with it so much, the pondering of individuals’s emotions, pondering of individuals’s feelings, desirous to be in contact with them, however then additionally, on the finish of the day, having to generally make actually troublesome management-type selections that have an effect on folks’s livelihood. I discover it very difficult. I want your therapist for that as properly.
Debora Cahn of “The Diplomat.”
(Jason Armond / Los Angeles Instances)
Debora, you could have a personality, a feminine vp, who’s been doing the bidding of an older president whose capabilities have been referred to as into query, and spoiler alert, she turns into president. The season launched every week or so earlier than the 2024 presidential election. What was that like? And the way is it writing a political drama now versus while you had been engaged on “The West Wing”?
R. Scott Gemmill of “The Pitt.”
(Jason Armond / Los Angeles Instances)
Let’s discuss launch methods. There’s the normal, week-to-week mannequin and the extra trendy, all-at-once mannequin. There’s a mixture of each within the market. Scott, with “The Pitt,” you could possibly simply see the best way folks rallied round each week to see what occurred subsequent. What do you want concerning the weekly launch?
Gemmill: I’ve solely ever carried out that. That is my first streaming present, and we’re doing it in a conventional drop every week. So I’ve by no means had a present that was bingeable. I don’t know another means. At one level, they had been going to launch three episodes without delay, however they solely launched two [at the start]. I don’t have a canine in that battle. I feel my present, simply due to the character of it, could be very laborious to binge.
Rogen: As somebody who’s been bingeing it, I can attest to that. [To Cahn] Yours comes out unexpectedly.
Cahn: It does. I don’t love that. It’s not what I might select. I feel Netflix provides lots of different pluses. [It’s] acquired a giant viewers everywhere in the world and that’s very nice. However I got here up in broadcast tv, and the concept you’ve created this factor and it’s a narrative that you simply’ve skilled over time, after which persons are like two days and carried out, it simply —
Mazin: It’s bizarre.
Cahn: And it adjustments the best way that you simply write.
Mazin: Over the previous couple of years, what’s occurring is, for reveals which might be popping out week by week, folks will now save up three at a time. In order that they don’t need to watch week after week. There’s this bizarre accordion factor happening, and I don’t know the place that is going. I don’t assume any of us do. I’m somewhat nervous concerning the week by week. I’m simply hoping that it stays.
I assumed for certain in the future Netflix would go, “Why are we doing this?” As a result of I actually didn’t perceive. I nonetheless don’t perceive.
Cahn: I’ve this query each three months.
Rogen: They don’t have a solution.
Cahn: It really works for them.
Gemmill: Marvel why they complain about grind. As a result of it’s not there. Effectively, it’s since you put all of it out without delay.
Mazin: However then what I’m anxious about is that they’re proper. I’m simply questioning if persons are beginning to lose their persistence.
Statsky: Consideration span. I feel they’re. I’ve even observed, as a result of we used to drop two every week. On this season for “Hacks,” we’ve carried out one every week. I noticed a pair tweets the place folks had been like, “Why are the episodes shorter this year?” I used to be like, “Well, they’re not. You used to watch two.” However I do assume the one-a-week mannequin, as a result of now persons are so educated [to binge] — such as you’re saying, the eye span, it’s scary. I don’t assume folks need to watch like that anymore.
Nothing I’ll ever make is pretty much as good as ‘The Valley.’
— ‘The Studio’ co-creator Seth Rogen, on Bravo’s buzzy actuality sequence
Rogen: I produced “The Boys,” and we truly went from all of them popping out without delay to weekly. And it didn’t have an effect on the viewership in any means, form or type was what we had been advised. What it did have an effect on, that we may simply see, was it sustained cultural impression. Individuals talked about it for 3 months as an alternative of three weeks of extremely intense chatter. It simply occupied extra space in folks’s heads, which I feel was useful to the present.
Cahn: After they’re popping out one every week, you may repeat issues which you can’t after they’re popping out all collectively. It’s important to take a look at them when it comes to, did they every have the identical rhythm? Are they every actually that includes the identical characters and storylines? It’s important to give it some thought when it comes to, “If people do three at a time, what’s their experience going to be?” It’s horrible.
The speak of the city is runaway manufacturing and how one can cease it. Scott, “The Pitt” is about in Pittsburgh and you probably did movie exteriors there, however principal manufacturing occurred on the Warner Bros. lot. Speak about why that was necessary for you.
Gemmill: The present may have been shot in Moose Jaw. However it was necessary to carry the work right here, so we fought actually laborious to get the California tax credit score. An important a part of my job moreover writing producible scripts which might be on time is to maintain my present on the air so long as doable, to maintain everybody employed so long as doable. And that’s the factor I like the perfect about it. That is the primary present that Noah [Wyle]’s carried out since he left “ER” that’s shot in Los Angeles. It’s a disgrace. There’s extra manufacturing now, however after we first had been at Warner Bros. for this, it was a ghost city. It’s so unhappy as a result of I’ve been within the enterprise for 40 years and nonetheless get excited after I go on so much. And to see them develop into unused simply because it’s cheaper to shoot elsewhere … and there’s so many proficient folks right here, and it’s laborious on their households if it’s a must to go to Albuquerque for six months. I don’t ever need to depart the stage once more.
Mazin: We did our postproduction on the Warner Bros. lot, however we shoot in Canada. And I like Canada. However yeah, in fact, I’d like to be house. I like doing postproduction right here. I’ll take what I get. The monetary realities are fairly stark, that’s the issue. If you’re making a smaller present, the hole isn’t huge. In the event you’re making a bigger present, each proportion turns into an even bigger amount of cash and in addition represents a bigger quantity of individuals to make use of. However what’s good is it looks like they’re beginning to get their act collectively in Sacramento. I do fear generally it’s somewhat bit too late, as a result of the remainder of the world appears to be in an arms race to see what number of incentives they can provide to get manufacturing to go there.
I’m hoping that no less than we are able to begin to transfer the needle a bit as a result of, hear, that Warner Bros. lot, after I was a child beginning out, I might go on that lot, I might see the little “ER” backlot with the diner and all of it. And I used to be like, “That’s on TV. It’s here.” And now I stroll across the Warner Bros. lot and it’s only a single tram filled with vacationers and nobody else. And it’s so, so unhappy.
Lauren LeFranc of “The Penguin.”
(Jason Armond / Los Angeles Instances)
LeFranc: It’s actually heartbreaking. You used to have the ability to write what you’re doing, produce, do publish all on the identical lot. You had a household that you simply had been capable of type, and you could possibly mentor writers. I might not be capable of be a showrunner if not for all of the individuals who got here earlier than me who mentored me, and I may stroll to set, produce my very own episode, after which I can stroll to publish. It’s so laborious now the place you’re asking writers, particularly if networks aren’t paying for writers to go to set, “Can you pay for yourself to fly to New York?” It simply makes it so laborious to have the ability to educate folks in the best way that I really feel like I used to be privileged sufficient to be educated. What are we going to do about that?
Gemmill: Errors get made. The perfect half about the entire enterprise is it’s collaborative. However while you’re separated by 1000’s of miles, generally there’s a disconnect.
Earlier than we wrap, please inform me what you’re watching. Jen, we had been speaking about “The Valley” earlier.
Rogen: Oh, I watch “The Valley” too. It’s superb. Do you watch “The Valley” aftershow? It’s virtually pretty much as good as “The Valley.”
Statsky: I’m actually anxious about Jax.
Rogen: We watch actuality tv. I see the clean appears on all people’s face.
Statsky: We’re in comedy.
Mazin: I can’t imagine how scared I used to be while you had been speaking, after which how good I felt while you’re like, “It’s a reality show.”
Statsky: So, you recognize “Vanderpump Rules”?
Mazin: Ish.
Statsky: It’s an offshoot.
Rogen: Which is an offshoot of —
Statsky: “Real Housewives.”
Mazin: That is an echo of an echo. Go on.
Statsky: Sure, it’s an echo of an echo of rubbish.
Rogen: However it’s so good.
Statsky: However it’s the worst indictment of heterosexual marriage I’ve ever seen.
Rogen: Sure, it truly is.
Mazin: Oh, so by the way, the San Fernando Valley is what it’s [about]? It’s about Valley Village.
Statsky: Valley Village. It’s the {couples} which have moved to the Valley and are having youngsters and —
Rogen: And they’re all in very dangerous locations of their lives. It’s superb.
Statsky: You assume [in] actuality reveals most individuals are in dangerous locations. That’s sadly what folks need to watch. These persons are in notably dangerous locations.
Rogen: And the present appears to be compounding it, I feel.
Statsky: Yeah, weirdly, being on a actuality present isn’t serving to their drawback.
Rogen: I discover that I watch actuality TV as a result of after I watch your whole reveals, I discover them intellectually difficult. They make me self-conscious, or they make me impressed or one thing, which isn’t how I need to really feel essentially after an extended day at work simply watching one thing. And so actuality TV makes me really feel none of these issues. It on no account jogs my memory of what I’ve carried out all day.
Mazin: In the event you make me dissociate, I’m watching.
Statsky: You’re going to find it irresistible. However when you begin watching, Jax owns a bar in Studio Metropolis. We will all go. We will reunite.
Mazin: I’ve gone to that bar.
Rogen: You been to Jax’s?
Mazin: Sure, I’ve been to that bar.
Statsky: Wait, maintain on. However everybody else in that bar was there as a result of they watched the truth present. Why had been you there?
LeFranc: Out of context, I’m so invested in all this.
Rogen: You’ve acquired to observe it. … Nothing I’ll ever make is pretty much as good as “The Valley.”
