This text incorporates spoilers for the finale of Netflix’s “You.”
He has been Joe Goldberg, the well-read supervisor of a New York Metropolis bookstore. He’s been Will Bettelheim, a employee at a classy Los Angeles well being meals market. He’s been Jonathan Moore, a literature professor at a London college. And he’s been Joe Goldberg — once more — however as a married man, a father and a budding philanthropist. Irrespective of the title, he was the seemingly excellent vital different whose charming and thoughtful exterior hid a delusional, disturbed and harmful sociopath who goes to excessive lengths — like killing practically two dozen folks — to insert himself into the lives of the ladies who turned his obsession.
Now, Penn Badgley has shed all of these identities. His journey on the Lifetime-turned-Netflix sequence “You” reached its conclusion Thursday with the discharge of the drama’s fifth and last season. Joe has been discovered responsible of the murders of Guinevere Beck (Elizabeth Lail) and Love Quinn (Victoria Pedretti). And within the final minutes of the ultimate episode, we see Joe with a buzz minimize and in a pink jumpsuit, sitting in a jail cell, skimming a duplicate of Norman Mailer’s 1979 novel “The Executioner’s Song.” The final phrases of the sequence, fittingly, come within the type of Joe’s internal monologue. They usually take purpose on the viewer.
“Can you say them?” says Badgley, asking for a mild reminder after we meet just a few days earlier than the episodes are launched.
Nonetheless sporting the thrill minimize, he’s sitting in a holding room at Netflix’s places of work on Vine Road, and as he’s about to mirror on his character’s parting ideas, the piercing tone of an emergency alert notification begins blaring via his cellphone‘s speakers. “Earthquake detected,” he says, reading the message before showing his screen. “Drop, cover, hold on. Protect yourself.” It’s that form of startling distraction, simply as the strain has intensified, that’s helped Joe escape detection. Badgely, although, isn’t in search of an out.
With no imminent hazard inside our radius, he returns to Joe’s last phrases. (Narrating for the present’s unreliable narrator is a frightening task, by the way in which.)
“So in the end, my punishment is even worse than I imagined. The loneliness, oh my God, the loneliness. No hope of being held, knowing this is forever. It’s unfair putting all this on me. Aren’t we all just products of our environment? Hurt people, hurt people. I never stood a chance.” [An officer appears and slides a letter from an admirer through the bars of his cell. And Joe continues:] “Why am I in a cage when all these crazies write me all the depraved things they want me to do to them? Maybe we have a problem as a society. Maybe the problem isn’t me. Maybe it’s you.”
Listed here are edited excerpts from the dialog.
What are your ideas on these last phrases? What he says is one thing you’ve talked rather a lot about over the run of the present.
Michael [Foley] and Justin [Lo, who took over as showrunners for the final season] had an extremely tough process for themselves to finish this factor that’s like, is it end-able? Is it actually? I believe it’s a satisfying ending. I believe it’s the correct ending. Thematically, that was the place it needed to go: him alone and alive. What I suppose you may’t see, what there isn’t time for, is to point out him contending in actual time with it. However I believe he additionally exhibits us that he’s avoiding it. He’s like, “Well, it’s not me.”
We gave as a lot justice as the entire idea might take with out breaking it. The present ends in a spot the place it’s like, what do you do with this? What can we do with with male violence? It’s a very critical query. It’s under no circumstances easy to even strategy a solution, if we’re actually making an attempt to think about the humanity of all people and true justice. I believe it ends in a spot that we veer towards accountability reasonably than away from it.
Elizabeth Lail and Penn Badgley within the first season of “You” on Netflix. (Netflix)
Madeline Brewer as Bronte and Penn Badgley as Joe within the last season of “You.”
Proper. That’s what acquired me considering, is he getting what he deserves, given what he says? Would demise have been justice?
Truthfully, what would [be justice]? There’s jail, there’s demise, there’s torture and demise or torture then jail; there’s not getting caught in any respect. There aren’t that many issues that would occur. You undergo the record. If he was to be murdered, properly, that brings up numerous questions — specifically, is that truthful to the one that has to kill him? That’s marring them, that’s leaving them, even when it’s completely justified, with an unlimited burden to saddle on a girl’s shoulders, as a result of it could presumably have been a girl [killing him]. That’s not proper. There’s jail; we did that. The factor that makes it [work] — folks consider the field as his weapon. That’s the factor he’s related to. But when you concentrate on it, he’s a romantic, seductive determine. And truly, the place he does his most injury is de facto extra within the bed room, the proverbial bed room. And that’s the place he’s truly faraway from the world.
It’s not torture, it’s not vengeance. She [Bronte, Joe’s new quasi-love interest played by Madeline Brewer] didn’t even technically imply to do it. That’s the factor that makes it satisfying. I don’t even know if it’s satisfying ideologically. In essentially the most sensible sense, it’s satisfying. He’s not murdered and saved from distress. Someone doesn’t need to do one thing to him that makes him assume that he has an ethical excessive floor above them. He’s simply put in jail and that a part of him is taken away so he actually can by no means do it once more. There can by no means be a sixth or seventh or nevertheless many seasons.
Had you given a lot thought to what your protagonist deserved?
For years. The true ending is all the things main as much as that. It’s the latter half of this final season and, specifically, the final episode. The field is the apparent factor. And, certain, how visually iconic and presumably satisfying would it not be to have him killed within the field? He acquired stopped practically bare and, for the primary time in our eyes, he was changing into a sexual predator. That was what he was from the start and, whether or not proper or flawed, what the present selected to do was withhold the viewer from having the ability to see that, make the visible connection. And if it was accountable, it was as a result of it was ensuring you do the work to comprehend: What do it is advisable to see? Do it is advisable to see a rape? Is that what it is advisable to see to be able to understand this man in a sexual predator? I don’t assume we should always have to see that. It was the one time in my life the place I used to be adamant about being like, “No, I need to be in the least clothing possible.” The viewers must really feel that he’s dangerously near crossing a line, for us to see that second. And to catch him there, for her to catch him there. For us to see it, to witness his deconstruction in that method — that’s what the ending is, not a lot concerning the jail.
I believe folks will prefer it. However there’s gonna be so many people who find themselves going to be like [rolls eyes and moans with disapproval]. OK, truthful, truthful. You may also have a level. However do you perceive how a lot work a writers’ room has to [do] … it’s important to try to flip over each stone. What they did, I believe, is outstanding.
What was it like capturing that sequence within the woods? It was tough to look at for all the explanations you say. Joe became an animal.
To be trustworthy, I cherished it. To start with, hats off to all of our producers. They made certain that we had saved money and time by the point we acquired to the final episode so we might shoot that factor like just a little film. We had time to make it proper. By the point we acquired there, I’d invested sufficient that I didn’t need to do much more work that I used to be actually consciously conscious of. I had among the most enjoyable I’ve had all through the whole sequence. I spent numerous time in my underwear and nothing else. Originally of each take, for a interval of about two weeks or so, I needed to be coated in some extent of blood, sweat, exhaustion. I used to be doing numerous burpees, so it was simply bodily tremendous demanding. However I acquired into a spot the place it was two weeks of this unimaginable endurance train. It was a good looking strategy to finish the present. We might take care. I ought to give Madeline [Brewer, who plays Bronte, Joe’s latest conquest], her flowers. She was an unimaginable inventive accomplice to try this with. There was nothing that felt tough for the flawed causes. I spent per week and a half in my underwear within the woods at night time — I didn’t get one bug chew!
After 5 seasons, Penn Badgley says goodbye to the narcissistic sociopath character he portrayed in “You.” (Matt Seidel / For The Instances)
You’re mendacity.
I’m not. I wouldn’t say that. That might be loopy! I’m not even exaggerating. Not one.
How a lot distance have you ever had from Joe at this level?
We wrapped in August.
Did you continue to have the voiceover stuff after that?
Sure, I had sufficient that my job was not over. In truth, in all probability two months later or one thing, I needed to go in. On the final day, I didn’t understand it was my final day. And by the way in which, it’s virtually all the time been distant, apart from the primary season. So, I’m alone. It’s simply two post-producers in my ear and the engineer. It’s emblematic of what the expertise is for me. It’s like, “I’m here alone.” After all, there’s so many individuals supporting however, someway, Joe is sort of a man alone in a field. We have been doing one thing type of unremarkable for voiceover that [last] day. Due to what it was, I stated, “Is this it?” That was the extremely anticlimactic ending for me.
So, it wasn’t the narration with Joe’s parting ideas?
No. The ultimate phrases you hear have been the primary take that I did months previous to it. My supply, I believe, was not emphatic as some may think it could be. The final phrase is “you.” So, I might actually draw that out, and I used to be similar to, “I’m literally not going to give you another one, because if I do, you will use it. I’m sorry, it’s very important to me. Fire me.” That was the one hill possibly I selected to die on.
The very last thing [I filmed] was in jail. Truly, that was the identical day I shot that “demure” TikTok. The humorous factor is, Netflix is asking me to do one thing for it. I threw that collectively so quick as a result of the very first thing I needed to do [for the show] was go in and shave my head. They have been like, “Oh, you can do it after rehearsals.” I used to be like, “I can’t, guys. That’s a huge spoiler.”
That night time [after wrapping] I drove all the way in which out to to Lengthy Island [to spend two weeks at the beach with family]. I believe I sat in a protracted silence. It was actually surreal. It was a greater a part of my 30s — in just a few months, I’ll be 39; it defines an period for me.
You began this journey with Sera Gamble. She stepped down from showrunning duties for the ultimate season however remained a producer. Have been you checking in along with her?
Solely at first. She trusted Michael and Justin, and I trusted them. There wasn’t even a symbolic hand-holding. It was not her obligation. Everyone was doing what they wanted to do. I believe we in all probability texted proper in the direction of the top. She in all probability had the closest expertise to what I skilled however by no means in the identical time and place.
There’s a three-year time leap initially of the season. Joe returns to New York with Kate [Charlotte Ritchie], he will get his son again, and he’s been dwelling a considerably regular life, making a pact with Kate to abstain from his sociopathic tendencies.
I preferred that there was a model of them making an attempt to do that collectively. Within the model the place all the things takes twice as lengthy, that will have been cool to discover extra. However we acquired two to 3 episodes the place you do get to see [it]. A few of my most satisfying scene work is along with her; he [Joe] was in all probability the closest to recognizing himself along with her [Kate]. Her character carry these qualities that nearly threaten to disrupt the whole charade. However then, in fact, I suppose she’s additionally like him, all that stuff, blah, blah, blah. If I had, like a fantasy, like, [I’d like to] discover this extra, it could be possibly that. Only a bit.
Penn Badgley, in filming the ultimate episode of “You,” stated of his character, Joe Goldberg: “In those last moments, he’s uninteresting. He’s like a lizard. He has nothing to offer … At that point, I was just like, ‘I can’t do this man anymore.’”
(Matt Seidel / For The Instances)
The present was within the works for some time, but it surely arrived on the peak of the #MeToo motion.
Technically, proper earlier than. After we have been capturing, all of the [Harvey] Weinstein allegations have been popping out — then, they have been allegations.
It felt, not less than then, like there was a reckoning and a shift in making an attempt to holding males accountable.
And we did it! [he says sarcastically] Didn’t we?
Precisely. There’s been reflection on the place we stand right this moment, the cultural development or regression. So, “You” is leaving at an attention-grabbing time. How do you make sense of that?
Let me preface any reply by saying, I suppose I’m making an attempt to make sense of it like anyone. However to me, there’s forces of disintegration and integration always. I believe, culturally, we have now this knee-jerk behavior the place all the things is either-or. It’s such a binary. We’ve been needing to transcend that for a really very long time. We’re truly getting there as a result of so many individuals are recognizing that and wanting a unique paradigm that features much more complexity and, subsequently, fact. On the subject of this present, I’m actually glad we’re ending and never beginning now. It’s a really completely different second. It appears [that] in all probability individuals are extra disillusioned now than they have been on the outset. At the least in the case of gender inequality, specifically, girls’s rights. I suppose that should imply we, as numerous others, have been on to one thing. The train of Joe as a protagonist wouldn’t have resonated if all of those actually tough truths weren’t tough and true. No one thought this present would clear up it and, guess what? It hasn’t.
I suppose that speaks to the purpose of his last phrases.
Sure, which is true. What I like is that he breaks the fourth wall and it’s like, “I’m not real. OK? I’m not real. So, it’s you. It actually can’t be me because I don’t exist.” I like that. I believe the present leaves one feeling surprisingly good. I believe? I could possibly be flawed.
Penn Badgley on his character’s last phrases: “What I love is that he breaks the fourth wall and it’s like, ‘I’m not real. OK? I’m not real. So, it’s you. It actually can’t be me because I don’t exist.’”
(Matt Seidel / For The Instances)
Inform me why.
I don’t know that I’ve good causes, however I do know that once I watch it, the final 20 minutes really feel good to me. Right here’s the principle cause: as a result of, by the top, we’ve deconstructed him and made him much less attention-grabbing. It’s like, would you like extra of this man? Do you really need extra? I’m certain there’s a method we will cook dinner one thing up, however do you actually? And so it passes the narrative voice to her [Bronte]. What an awesome system too. Once more, it’s not concerning the field. It’s concerning the voice and the bed room. These are the instruments he makes use of greater than the rest. He seduces. And people are the issues we gave to any person else. Nicely, certainly one of them we took away and the opposite one we gave to her. Additionally, by his final scene along with her, the place she acquired him at gunpoint, I discovered the muscular tissues in my neck, which is the place the entire rage has all the time come out, have been giving out in methods I’ve by no means skilled in my life. I couldn’t converse or do something aside from power up my strains utilizing my diaphragm alone. It was exceedingly tough to say something audibly above the rain. In these final moments, he’s uninteresting. He’s like a lizard. He has nothing to supply. I might solely “say my lines like this” [he speaks in forced breaths]. I used to be drained. At that time, I used to be similar to, ‘I can’t do that man anymore.” She has all the things to say and all of the dimension and complexity. She has all of the bars to drop. Let’s simply usher this man away, please.
Have been there moments the place you noticed one thing in Joe, or feedback that he made, and thought, “I’ve been that guy before” or “I’ve done something like that…” How was he a mirror for you?
Completely. That was my job as an actor, simply to easily allow myself to make the connections and to grasp how I’m like him. After all, I’ve similarities. As a result of somebody like Joe is made — I suppose there’s facets to predisposition, genetics, all these things — however actually, an individual like that’s made, which is made extra advanced by the truth that they make decisions. What I’ve all the time been doing with him is knowing how my very own experiences of something that I might understand as traumatic [and] in the end grappling with my very own unhappiness. All of us have losses and grief that’s unacknowledged and unexpressed. I believe simply understanding the place is the violence and rage in me? That’s a extra mental method of claiming what I believe I used to be doing intuitively all alongside. And that was why on the finish, I couldn’t do it anymore as a result of I used to be like, that is simply exhausting. As a result of I’m not serious about it, I’m doing it. And, so, on a regular basis I used to be connecting. He was me. I’m not him, however he’s me, in a method. I don’t know if that is smart.
