David Fernandez Remesal took the job of CEO of Sandsoft in 2020 and moved to Saudi Arabia, the place his cell recreation firm relies. He arrange a studio in Riyadh and likewise employed cell recreation builders in locations like his native Spain, Finland and China. Fernandez Remesal targeted on esports at first, however pivoted to cell video games as a extra viable enterprise strategy.
The summers are loads hotter for certain, however Fernandez has sweated out the onerous work of creating a brand new studio in a spot the place recreation growth abilities are solely simply being fostered now for the brand new generations of recreation builders. Whereas Brazil is a much bigger and extra established market, Fernandez Remesal, who labored on video games like Sweet Crush Saga and Bubble Witch Saga earlier than main Sandsoft.
We talked about cell recreation tendencies at our fireplace chat at Gamescom Latam in a chat entitled, “The Mobile Frontier: Big Trends and Smarter Moves for 2025.”
We lined lots of floor in our fireplace chat at Gamescom Latam in Sao Paulo, Brazil. We hit matters like Apple’s transfer to emphasise consumer privateness over focused advertisements because it deprecated the Identifier for Advertises (IDFA). We additionally lined the antitrust ruling that would bust the floodgates open in the case of builders having the ability to promote their very own net retailers (the place they’ll cost decrease costs and don’t need to pay a 30% fee to Apple and Google) inside their cell video games on the Apple and Google app shops. We explored the implications if recreation builders are additionally in a position to make use of their very own fee techniques — which take round 3% commissions reasonably than 30% — in cell recreation transactions.
Sandsoft is concentrated on profiting from these tendencies by specializing in midcore avid gamers, which is turning into a much bigger a part of the general cell video games market. And Sandsoft can also be busy engaged on AI instruments that may assist builders work extra effectively.
And we checked out different alternatives for cell to develop because the mobile-first technology grows up and turns into a much bigger a part of the inhabitants of avid gamers. We additionally assessed when it’s the appropriate time for native expertise to tackle native tales and unfold them to the worldwide stage with genuine triple-A growth.
Right here’s an edited transcript of our on-stage interview.
Sandsoft CEO David Fernandez Remesal
GamesBeat: I’m right here with David Fernandez Remesal, the CEO of Sandsoft. I’ll have him introduce himself, his profession in video games, and the origins of Sandsoft.
David Fernandez Remesal: I’m happy to be in Brazil. It’s my first time. I’d wish to thank everybody right here. You’re doing an unbelievable present. I’m type of what I might name cell native in the case of recreation growth. I began my profession engaged on cell video games virtually 20 years in the past. These of you that have been round, meaning earlier than smartphone video games. I labored at an organization referred to as THQ that you could be bear in mind. They have been one of many pioneers, as a triple-A video games firm, in doing cell video games as effectively. I began my profession at THQ Juarez, their cell recreation division.
After that I had the privilege of working with two business titans at an organization referred to as Digital Chocolate. That was Journey Hawkins, the founding father of Digital Arts, and Ilkka Paananen, who occurs to be the CEO and founding father of Supercell as effectively. I spent a part of my profession engaged on an app retailer with Nokia. I additionally labored on the N-Gage handheld system. In that individual case I made the unsuitable alternative. I went for the loser within the smartphone period. However finally I discovered fairly a bit about the way you want merchandise, video games, and apps on an e-commerce platform.
After doing one thing within the cell promoting house, I additionally had the dignity of becoming a member of King, the place I labored for nearly 5 years on a few franchises. One was Bubble Witch Saga, after which Sweet Crush Saga. I used to be on the King London studio after I left to run Sandsoft 5 years in the past.
GamesBeat: Sandsoft is fascinating to this market partly since you’re additionally in an rising market, albeit a really completely different a part of the world. The corporate is headquartered in Saudi Arabia. Are you able to speak about how that occurred to return about?
Fernandez Remesal: We’re barely earlier by way of the sport business in Saudi in comparison with what we see right here in Brazil, significantly towards recreation growth capabilities. However we now have a pleasant client market. It’s not as massive as Brazil. However let me get began with how Sandsoft was created. For these of you who are usually not acquainted with Saudi Arabia, they’ve a plan referred to as Saudi Imaginative and prescient 2030. The principle proposal is to diversify the financial system away from oil and gasoline. As a part of that program, they’re attempting to construct what we name a data financial system. Gaming is a pivotal a part of that transition.
We’re half of a giant Saudi company that was based to help that plan. They determined to diversify their group. Gaming was one of many issues they wished to do. Sandsoft was born in 2019, initially as an esports firm. The very first thing we did as an organization was the PUBG Cellular occasion in Saudi Arabia. However [we] realized esports was not a enterprise. It was possibly extra of a present, reasonably than correct industrial ongoing actions you’ll be able to run in a sustainable means. They determined to enterprise into cell recreation growth and publishing, which is what we do right now. We’re growing video games in our personal studios, and we’re a world video games writer. We’re supporting recreation growth studios within the cell house to commercialize their video games.
Iza’s Grocery store
GamesBeat: What are you engaged on? What’s your focus? How massive is the group, and the place are they?
Fernandez Remesal: We now have roughly 100 individuals. We’re break up into 4 completely different markets. Now we have individuals in Saudi Arabia, the place we’re headquartered. We additionally host a recreation growth studio there. Now we have satellite tv for pc workplaces in Spain, the place we even have a growth studio. Then we now have a few publishing operations in China and Finland. We even have a small studio in France. That’s the place we now have our operations.
When it comes to focus, as I discussed to you, we’re targeted on cell platforms. Now we have a couple of video games with aspirations to change into cross-platform, however we’re cell first.
GamesBeat: You moved to Saudi Arabia. Are you able to speak about what that was like for you?
Fernandez Remesal: Sure, I did. I’ve been there for 4 years now. The climate apart – the summer time is admittedly scorching – it was an enormous cultural change for a European to return over to a rustic that was possibly extra conservative, that was extra closed than different international locations I’ve lived in. However I felt that in case you are respectful, for those who attempt to perceive the issues which can be altering, and for those who adapt to the tempo of change, it’s fairly livable.
The persons are very enthusiastic about video games particularly. There’s a younger, savvy inhabitants. They think about themselves avid gamers. Once you inform them you’re employed in video games, they respect you. It’s completely different from different international locations, the place individuals assume you play video games all day. They don’t notice that that is an artwork type, that that is one thing that goes past simply play.
GamesBeat: A reminder that it’s a world business. Gaming isn’t what it was once. It was once from Japan, the U.S., and Europe. Now it’s a really completely different world.
Fernandez Remesal: Appropriate. It’s turning into very international. Like we see right here. It’s not nearly all of the individuals attending to play video games, but in addition all the sport firms showcasing their video games, which is admittedly thrilling.
GamesBeat: How far alongside are your video games?
Fernandez Remesal: When it comes to our recreation growth studios, we’re simply beginning our first prototypes. Each studios began in 2023, nevertheless it took us a while to get the preliminary core groups that we might belief to develop their recreation concepts into commercially viable video games. Now we have been in a type of boot camp at each the studios for a yr. Now they’re beginning to prototype what we will see as extra industrial video games.
As a writer we now have a couple of video games already out there. Perhaps the primary we launched was in partnership with Jam Metropolis, DC Heroes and Villains. We’re additionally elevating a couple of different video games that–cell free-to-play video games, you don’t have a pink button the place you hit it and the sport is reside. It’s extra about ongoing progress. You’re protecting them in growth and bettering the video games. You then attempt to discover methods to scale. On this case by means of consumer acquisition. In that sense we’ve had video games out there out there for greater than three years. Now we have six video games in our portfolio. Two of them are extra mature. We anticipate to scale them within the first half of the yr.
GamesBeat: Let’s get into a number of the tendencies within the cell business. What do you see? What issues to you? What’s essential to concentrate to in cell?
Fernandez Remesal: Let me begin with one thing that’s in lots of circumstances not appeared into sufficient. We’re seeing a change within the viewers itself. We have to acknowledge that Era Z is coming in. They carry a totally new means of consuming content material. They’re much less interested in deep, partaking experiences. If I might name them, in a means, the digital technology, they’re targeted on short-term or short-form leisure, the place they’ll get their dopamine and adrenaline after which have interaction additional. They’re a technology that doesn’t pay lots of consideration till they get actually hooked on the issues they’re doing.
From that perspective, we see a shift in client habits. We see completely different session lengths, alternative ways of partaking with video games. The business is rising by double digits in areas like South America and the Center East and southeast Asia, whereas the extra western markets aren’t rising as a lot. That’s linked to the common age in these areas. They’ve a lot youthful populations in these rising markets, the place they eat video games as a local leisure type. There’s a brand new client coming in from Era Z, bringing new consumption patterns of their session habits and charges of play. On the identical time, there’s a chance to suggest completely different sorts of content material.
Epic Video games continues to be tangling with Google and Apple on antitrust.
GamesBeat: One of many fascinating tendencies that’s emerged in cell is the significance of the connection between builders and platforms. We noticed Apple’s determination a couple of years in the past to prioritize consumer privateness over focused promoting. It made focused promoting a lot more durable. Sport firms misplaced the flexibility to very exactly goal individuals who favored sure sorts of video games. They’d to return to extra of a guessing recreation round methods to zero in on which customers they wished to focus on.
This had an impression over years. Do you assume we’ve discovered methods to cope with this variation out there and nonetheless have the ability to discover the customers that you simply want?
One factor that we’re seeing increasingly more is recreation builders attempting to construct communities in all places. Making an attempt to reveal their video games. Making an attempt to create communities by means of influencers, by means of Discord and content material creation. However finally IDFA is right here to remain.
GamesBeat: Talking of the developer-platform relationship, we’ve had an antitrust case happening for a very long time, 4 and a half years now, between Epic Video games and Apple. Yesterday we bought a ruling from the choose that held Apple in contempt of courtroom. This has lots of significance for whether or not or not cell recreation firms can go outdoors of Apple’s retailer and promote decrease costs on their net retailers or different websites. They’ll promote the identical issues at decrease costs than the app retailer as a result of Apple takes a 30% reduce.
Apple appealed this and had been capable of dodge the results of it, even in Europe, the place that they had a 27% core expertise payment they launched. Now the choose has mentioned, “No more of that. You can’t evade this ruling anymore. You have to allow game companies to tell their users that there are lower prices elsewhere.” This can be a elementary antitrust safety for shoppers. The ruling ought to have an effect on the entire business. What’s your view?
Fernandez Remesal: We have been speaking final week, early this week. Ultimately, we’ll see some type of platform disruption, particularly if you take a look at cell platforms. Cellular has been largely ruled by two platform firms, Google and Apple. There have been different app shops within the Android ecosystem, however ultimately there are few alternatives so that you can get content material, and significantly video games, in your cell system. That’s a scenario set for disruption.
Ultimately, significantly in international locations which can be extra protecting towards shoppers–they’re upset about these oligopolies. They’d like to supply shoppers extra alternatives to find content material and achieve this in a means that’s truthful for each shoppers and recreation builders. The Digital Markets Act, in the UK, was one of many first adjustments we noticed attempting to open the cell gaming ecosystem a bit extra, attempting to make sure that builders have some alternative and shoppers have some alternative. However as you talked about, that was a segue means for Apple to introduce a brand new tax, a brand new payment for recreation builders in the event that they wished to go that route.
What we noticed a couple of hours in the past–it seems actually latest. However recreation builders now have the chance to have a direct relationship with shoppers. They’ll construct that relationship in a means the place they’ll supply shoppers extra alternate options and selections. To begin with, worth factors. You may supply completely different worth factors in comparison with what’s out there within the app shops. For these of you who’re recreation builders, within the app shops you can’t choose any worth level you need. They’re fastened. They’ve ranges you’ll be able to choose from, however you’ll be able to’t simply choose any worth level in any respect.
The second issue, as you talked about, is reductions. Making an attempt to make sure that for those who’re proposing this direct to client providing, you’ll be able to modify your margins and supply extra worth to shoppers. Ultimately that ensures that you simply as a recreation developer can get a broader a part of the worth share you’re creating with the patron, however on the identical time give some again as effectively to the patron in a means the place they’ll pay much less once they’re utilizing an online store.
The factor that we’ll hopefully begin to see quickly is that it’s not nearly you informing shoppers that they’ll produce other methods to eat your content material and purchase content material outdoors of your app, going to the net to purchase it. Ultimately it’s going to open up the precise app to extra actual fee strategies in video games, as you see in different apps within the app shops.
GamesBeat: We’re not fairly certain what the road can be. Will Apple permit individuals to make use of their very own fee techniques as an alternative choice to Apple Pay?
Fernandez Remesal: Proper. However from that perspective, video games have been punished in comparison with different apps. Why are we not capable of construct that type of relationship with shoppers? Why can’t we suggest a selected fee or subscription mechanic that different leisure choices can do within the app shops?
Sandsoft’s Potions & Spells.
GamesBeat: Assuming that funds are usually not going to alter, the following neatest thing is net retailers. Arrange your individual retailer on the net. Prior to now firms couldn’t promote that net store’s existence contained in the app, however now they’ll. They’ll say that you could get one thing for cheaper costs elsewhere. Xsolla has been opening lots of these net retailers and working them for firms. They’ve greater than 500 of them now. However no one knew about them. They do say that buyers are utilizing them. They’re going again at a 30-40% price and making a 10-16% carry in revenues for builders, or in some circumstances increased. These sound like pretty promising outcomes comparatively early for various net retailers.
Fernandez Remesal: That’s appropriate. Notably, for those who’re a client that pays in cell free-to-play video games, you’re attempting to get the most effective worth for cash. Ultimately this type of core, engaged viewers that makes up the payers in your recreation, they already know they’ll go to the store to get a greater providing. For the higher mass of shoppers that don’t pay, they’re probably not conscious they’ll go to the net store to purchase content material and get higher offers than going by means of the app shops, the in-app retailers.
There are two points right here. One is about shoppers getting extra worth for cash right here. The second is about builders getting extra worth from the worth chain and delivering extra of it again to shoppers as effectively.
GamesBeat: The web result’s that it’s extra money going to the underside line for builders to reinvest of their enterprise. That’s been sorely wanted, particularly within the final two and a half years. We’ve seen an actual painful downturn within the international recreation business. Each penny counts nowadays.
Fernandez Remesal: It’s a greater distribution of worth on this case, contemplating what everybody places on the desk. Perhaps within the early days of the app shops there have been extra merchandising choices for builders, methods to get worth from the app shops. There was much less content material. Your content material might attain extra customers. There was worth within the promotional exercise the app retailer would run for you. Now that’s closely pushed by UA. In that context, the app shops actually simply change into a fee methodology. From that perspective, builders capturing extra worth and giving extra worth again to shoppers is sweet, as a result of that’s reinvested within the recreation business. Sport builders seize extra worth and that helps them create higher content material and interact higher with shoppers.
GamesBeat: We’ve talked about a few of these tendencies. How are you most carefully aligning your organization to a few of these tendencies, to make the most of them?
Iza’s Grocery store is a recreation from Sandsoft.
Fernandez Remesal: There are a few tendencies we didn’t talk about a lot. One is about how cell video games particularly have gotten extra complicated. Three years in the past we have been speaking about hypercasual video games, video games largely monetized by means of in-game promoting. Due to the challenges round privateness, video games have gotten extra deep now. They’ve microtransactions. Even informal video games have gotten extra complicated. They’ve metagames on high. They’ve deeper economies. Informal video games have gotten extra mid-core.
Mid-core video games are going this manner as effectively, to extra core recreation mechanics. You see loads of video games with battle passes, with extra core engagement loops that you simply didn’t see earlier than. After which if you go to essentially core video games, they’re turning into extra like informal video games. They’re attempting to simplify on the core, attempting to make themselves extra accessible. There are some shifts on the best way. Sport builders are making video games which can be in a far more complicated, however they’re attempting to simplify the core recreation mechanics to be extra accessible.
As an organization we’re attempting to observe these tendencies. We’re engaged on a couple of informal video games that we’re releasing with our exterior companions. We’re attempting to watch how we will suggest these deeper economies in video games that really feel very accessible, which can be simple to play, which can be simple to understand and clarify by means of a easy advert, however that may finally retain and interact individuals for a very long time.
The second pattern we didn’t talk about a lot was generative AI. That’s remodeling not simply recreation growth, however many industries. It’s a brand new instrument for everybody to make use of and leverage. Any recreation firm, or any firm in any respect, in the long run must have a correct AI technique. In our case we’re leveraging AI largely for content material creation, largely for advertisements at this second. We’re enriching our NPCs by means of AI. However I presume that we’ll be including efficiencies in many of the issues we do, like recreation programming. We’re doing code evaluations with AI now. We’re performing some small degree designs with AI. That’s one of many instruments that’s going to supply superpowers to recreation builders.
David Fernandez Remesal moved to Saudi Arabia to run Sandsoft.
Groups that, a couple of years in the past, have been contemplating constructing an engine of their very own, they don’t do this any extra. They use Unity or Godot or Unreal. Now there are pipelines for recreation growth that can be reworked by way of AI. Issues that want 10 individuals to do them these days, one developer would possibly have the ability to do them extra effectively a yr from now.
GamesBeat: Would you think about bringing cell advertisements into the corporate due to AI advances? Cellular advert optimization now might be completed fairly effectively by AI. Fewer individuals can get rather more work completed by way of creating variations on advertisements to check them out there and see which explicit advert does effectively. That optimization course of was typically dealt with by outsiders. May that change?
Fernandez Remesal: On the go-to-market you’re exactly proper. For cell video games, what we name artistic optimization is a part of the best way that you could optimize your development technique. Nevertheless it’s broader than that. When you consider how, significantly on this case, artists work, they work on content material manufacturing. You create some illustrations of characters and environments, and that is reworked by AI. With one artist you will get 100 completely different ideas with simply a few prompts. Earlier than, within the guide world, you’d have to spend in all probability half a day to only create one. That is about being extra open for creativity, to get extra choices for exploring characters, environments, and artwork types. It’s not simply on the promoting facet, too. It’s on recreation creation, too, to discover new ideas in a broader means.
GamesBeat: In Saudi Arabia you’ve got some parallels to Brazil in some methods, by way of what you do with the group that you’ve. The group is comparatively new to video games. You’re rising an area employees. We noticed some very fascinating tendencies previously yr round Black Delusion: Wukong. It was a Chinese language-made recreation made for Chinese language shoppers, the Chinese language market. It did spectacularly effectively on the worldwide stage as effectively, 25 million copies bought proper off the bat. It validated the notion {that a} nation’s native content material could possibly be interesting on a world scale. Much more video games are being greenlit in China now with hopes that they’ll attain a world market.
Sandosoft’s PocketNecro
For you, in Saudi Arabia, do you’ve got a option to make round whether or not to make native content material or international content material?
Fernandez Remesal: As a recreation developer, we’re creating content material for international markets. We’re not doing content material to be consumed regionally. However that doesn’t imply–as in any a part of the world, you’ve got native tales, native myths, native themes that you could expose and finally create connections with shoppers and gamers in all places on the planet.
Once I take into consideration our expertise pool, I gained’t deny that we’re fairly a global firm. Now we have 100 individuals on the group who come from 30 completely different nationalities. We’re nonetheless a nascent state by way of native Saudi expertise. We don’t have sufficient functionality to create these native tales in a means the place they really feel genuine, the place they’re instructed by the appropriate individuals. However that can come finally. I believe there’s analogy when you consider films and tv. There are many tales from this a part of the world which have been instructed. We talked about Aladdin, about Prince of Egypt. There are many tales that resonate with international audiences. However we have to have the actual individuals, the native expertise that may inform these tales in a means that finally attracts a world viewers and may change into a mass market alternative, reasonably than a distinct segment factor for the native market.
GamesBeat: A variety of that is possibly a stepping-stone course of. You must degree up your group. You must guarantee that they’ll develop to be veterans of the business. Then at that time the alternatives change. You should utilize them to be the central creators of the content material.
Fernandez Remesal: Appropriate. Once you’re creating video games, if you’re creating many sorts of content material, it comes from your individual ardour. There’s some sense of the market concerned, understanding whether or not there’s a industrial alternative, nevertheless it comes from individuals’s ardour. The fervour is there, however the abilities and capabilities are usually not there but to consider a world recreation alternative. We’ve seen that in different video games. Murderer’s Creed is an efficient instance of that, the place they’ve taken worlds and themes that resonate within the area, however to not the extent that it appears like a correct story from that a part of the world. However you’re exactly proper. We have to wait a couple of years to have this functionality in place so we now have a reputable story to inform in a industrial means and may meet the standard expectations that international audiences have.
GamesBeat: From what you’ve seen, what’s your evaluation of the place expertise is? Whether or not in your area or different areas of the world as effectively. The place is the most effective cell gaming expertise now?
Sandsoft’s Wizario
Fernandez Remesal: The reply for me is kind of simple. You simply want to have a look at the video games that make the highest of the charts. China has positively change into the world chief in recreation growth expertise for cell video games. It’s not nearly Tencent or Netease or MiHoYo. Loads of recreation builders are creating video games which can be consumed globally. That’s the bigger expertise pool for cell video games.
It’s true as effectively that the pool is increasing fairly broadly. Creating cell video games is extra accessible than going for triple-A console video games. There are many pockets of excellence in Europe, within the U.S., in Latin America. I’m actually impressed by individuals right here in Brazil, in Argentina, in Uruguay, in Chile. That’s turning into extra accessible. Expertise is growing in lots of components of the world.
In my area, in Saudi Arabia, it’s very new. I believe that’s resonating with individuals right here in Brazil. Perhaps we’re Brazil 5 years in the past. There have been some pockets of expertise that have been attempting to get their first firms into the market. We’re on the route the place we’re importing expertise to help recreation growth, but in addition constructing native expertise, so we will develop the entire business.
One other matter that’s not a lot a pattern as a actuality now, it’s about going cross-platform. There are many cell first video games which can be enthusiastic about shifting to completely different platforms. When you consider how one can go to market, how one can prototype, cell is often the cheaper platform to do this. We see increasingly more groups getting their IP into PC and console coming from cell. We’re observing that increasingly more.
One other pattern we see is transmedia. Perhaps that was a buzzword at one level, individuals enthusiastic about migrating IP from video games into different artwork varieties, however we positively see it fairly a bit now, significantly the collection we’ve seen from Netflix and Amazon and so forth. Rovio is doing films. Transmedia is turning into a pattern for firms with deep pockets and deep budgets.
GamesBeat: The most important factor to observe proper now, I might agree, is AI and the place it’s going to alter issues. I imagine that cell gaming is likely one of the areas the place it’s going to have the most important impression. AI can’t create triple-A video games but, however there are lots of issues associated to the enterprise of cell video games that may be automated. We’ll see the place that takes maintain and will get traction.
Fernandez Remesal: One thing that we’re seeing fairly a bit right here in Brazil is the renaissance of net gaming. WebGL has actually improved currently. We see wonderful experiences on the cell net. Cellular net can be a chance for recreation builders. It hyperlinks to what we talked about earlier than with net retailers and how one can monetize.
GamesBeat: Now we have the Nintendo Swap 2 launching very shortly. The fascinating factor about now versus years in the past is that Nintendo is not the primary system that youngsters get their palms on as a gamer. It’s smartphones and tablets now, cell video games. That’s how they study to play video games, which represents a sea change for firms like Nintendo. They need to observe this pattern. The youngest avid gamers are solely going to know the manufacturers that they see on cell.
Fernandez Remesal: That’s exactly proper. Cellular is the primary gaming system for a lot of, many individuals, significantly children. That’s the place they uncover content material. It’s not simply video games. It’s how they discover all types of leisure – streaming media, music, and video games as effectively.
Disclosure: Gamescom Latam paid my solution to Brazil.
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